Searching 30,000 emails

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Searching 30,000 emails

LuKreme
I have a squirrelmail (squirrelmail-1.4.20_2) setup running under FreeBSD 8.0, and I have a user who has a bit over 30,000 emails. Squirrelmail is usable, but he has need to search the emails (all of them) frequently, and here squirrelmail falls down, badly.
x
The emails are not just numerous, but also tend to be large with attachments (over 4GB total mail).

The mailstore is maildir.

Is there anything that I can do on the backend? Any search plugins that might help?

I’m thinking the best thing to do might be simply to move this user to a gmail account, but he is very resistant to that.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Tomas Kuliavas
2013.05.01 02:01 LuKreme rašė:

> I have a squirrelmail (squirrelmail-1.4.20_2) setup running under FreeBSD
> 8.0, and I have a user who has a bit over 30,000 emails. Squirrelmail is
> usable, but he has need to search the emails (all of them) frequently, and
> here squirrelmail falls down, badly.
> x
> The emails are not just numerous, but also tend to be large with
> attachments (over 4GB total mail).
>
> The mailstore is maildir.
>
> Is there anything that I can do on the backend? Any search plugins that
> might help?

If you use Courier, switch to Dovecot and enable FTS plugin in Dovecot. If
you want to test it, you can run Dovecot on different port. Dovecot
namespace configuration should be setup to match courier's to simplify
migration.

Other option is Cyrus, but it would be radical change in backend.

--
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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

LuKreme
"Tomas Kuliavas" opined on Tuesday 30-Apr-2013@22:46:49

> 2013.05.01 02:01 LuKreme rašė:
>> I have a squirrelmail (squirrelmail-1.4.20_2) setup running under FreeBSD
>> 8.0, and I have a user who has a bit over 30,000 emails. Squirrelmail is
>> usable, but he has need to search the emails (all of them) frequently, and
>> here squirrelmail falls down, badly.
>> x
>> The emails are not just numerous, but also tend to be large with
>> attachments (over 4GB total mail).
>>
>> The mailstore is maildir.
>>
>> Is there anything that I can do on the backend? Any search plugins that
>> might help?
>
> If you use Courier, switch to Dovecot and enable FTS plugin in Dovecot.

I use postfix with courier auth, though I’m working on moving to dovecot for authentication, but I think that’s not what you mean.

> If you want to test it, you can run Dovecot on different port. Dovecot
> namespace configuration should be setup to match courier's to simplify
> migration.

Could I do that just for squirrel mail (it runs on a separate machine from the mailserver)?

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

mick.crane
http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/FTS

On 01/05/2013, LuKreme <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "Tomas Kuliavas" opined on Tuesday 30-Apr-2013@22:46:49
>> 2013.05.01 02:01 LuKreme rašė:
>>> I have a squirrelmail (squirrelmail-1.4.20_2) setup running under FreeBSD
>>> 8.0, and I have a user who has a bit over 30,000 emails. Squirrelmail is
>>> usable, but he has need to search the emails (all of them) frequently,
>>> and
>>> here squirrelmail falls down, badly.
>>> x
>>> The emails are not just numerous, but also tend to be large with
>>> attachments (over 4GB total mail).
>>>
>>> The mailstore is maildir.
>>>
>>> Is there anything that I can do on the backend? Any search plugins that
>>> might help?
>>
>> If you use Courier, switch to Dovecot and enable FTS plugin in Dovecot.
>
> I use postfix with courier auth, though I’m working on moving to dovecot for
> authentication, but I think that’s not what you mean.
>
>> If you want to test it, you can run Dovecot on different port. Dovecot
>> namespace configuration should be setup to match courier's to simplify
>> migration.
>
> Could I do that just for squirrel mail (it runs on a separate machine from
> the mailserver)?
>
> --
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> never managed it from the cat. --Witches Abroad
>
>
>
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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

mick.crane
oops, not meaning to include text there.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Tomas Kuliavas
In reply to this post by LuKreme
LuKreme wrote
Could I do that just for squirrel mail (it runs on a separate machine from the mailserver)?
SquirrelMail search is as fast as your IMAP search is. Application does not index all your private parts like gmail does.

I know only two servers with full text search squater indexing support. Dovecot IMAP will be improvement over Courier even without FTS plugins. It has more caching by default. Cyrus FTS indexes are persistent. Dovecot generates those indexes on demand. If only one user needs search, then you will save on storage costs with Dovecot. If more users need it, you will save time for first search command with Cyrus, but initial rollout costs will be bigger.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Juergen Nickelsen-3
On 2013-05-01 18:58, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
> LuKreme wrote
>> Could I do that just for squirrel mail (it runs on a separate machine from
>> the mailserver)?
>
> SquirrelMail search is as fast as your IMAP search is. Application does not
> index all your private parts like gmail does.

That reminds me:
"In C++, a friend may touch another object's private parts." :-)

To be serious, it could be interesting to use mairix[1] to build indexes
and to make a UI as a SquirrelMail plugin. It can search very fast in
its indexes; results are presented in a separate folder containing
symlinks to the actual message files. My non-IMAP-using colleagues
*love* mairix.

Perhaps mairix would have to be adapted a bit – when I last tried it, it
didn't work instantly with Dovecot, but I didn't have the time and/or
the impetus to investigate it. Some work on the side of the IMAP server
would be needed, too, of course. All in all, the whole thing shouldn't
be too difficult, at least for Maildir backends. And no, I'm not doing
it – too much to do, too little time, same old, same old.

(I have cross-posted this to the plugins mailing list; dunno if that works.)

Regards, Jürgen.

[1] http://www.rpcurnow.force9.co.uk/mairix/

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Tomas Kuliavas
Juergen Nickelsen-3 wrote
On 2013-05-01 18:58, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
> LuKreme wrote
>> Could I do that just for squirrel mail (it runs on a separate machine from
>> the mailserver)?
>
> SquirrelMail search is as fast as your IMAP search is. Application does not
> index all your private parts like gmail does.

That reminds me:
"In C++, a friend may touch another object's private parts." :-)

To be serious, it could be interesting to use mairix[1] to build indexes
and to make a UI as a SquirrelMail plugin. It can search very fast in
its indexes; results are presented in a separate folder containing
symlinks to the actual message files. My non-IMAP-using colleagues
*love* mairix.

Perhaps mairix would have to be adapted a bit – when I last tried it, it
didn't work instantly with Dovecot, but I didn't have the time and/or
the impetus to investigate it. Some work on the side of the IMAP server
would be needed, too, of course. All in all, the whole thing shouldn't
be too difficult, at least for Maildir backends. And no, I'm not doing
it – too much to do, too little time, same old, same old.
IMAP UIDVALIDITY kills any client side indexing. Client has to rebuild cache every time UIDVALIDITY is invalidated by IMAP server and to rebuild the cache you have to download entire mailbox.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

LuKreme
In reply to this post by mick.crane

On 01 May 2013, at 02:06 , michael crane <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://wiki2.dovecot.org/Plugins/FTS

Yes, I have read that.

I'm having trouble building dovecot on the mailserver for reasons completely unrelated to dovecot.


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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Juergen Nickelsen-3
In reply to this post by Tomas Kuliavas
On 2013-05-01 20:58, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:

>> To be serious, it could be interesting to use mairix[1] to build indexes
>> and to make a UI as a SquirrelMail plugin. It can search very fast in
>> its indexes; results are presented in a separate folder containing
>> symlinks to the actual message files. My non-IMAP-using colleagues
>> *love* mairix.
>>
>> Perhaps mairix would have to be adapted a bit – when I last tried it, it
>> didn't work instantly with Dovecot, but I didn't have the time and/or
>> the impetus to investigate it. Some work on the side of the IMAP server
>> would be needed, too, of course. All in all, the whole thing shouldn't
>> be too difficult, at least for Maildir backends. And no, I'm not doing
>> it – too much to do, too little time, same old, same old.
>
> IMAP UIDVALIDITY kills any client side indexing. Client has to rebuild cache
> every time UIDVALIDITY is invalidated by IMAP server and to rebuild the
> cache you have to download entire mailbox.

I am not talking about client side indexing, but indeed server side
indexing. With some work on the IMAP server side (i.e. mairix
integration) and some on the client side (mairix GUI as SquirrelMail
plugin) this might be possible to do.

Regards, Juergen.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Paul Lesniewski
On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Juergen Nickelsen
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2013-05-01 20:58, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
>
>>> To be serious, it could be interesting to use mairix[1] to build indexes
>>> and to make a UI as a SquirrelMail plugin. It can search very fast in
>>> its indexes; results are presented in a separate folder containing
>>> symlinks to the actual message files. My non-IMAP-using colleagues
>>> *love* mairix.
>>>
>>> Perhaps mairix would have to be adapted a bit – when I last tried it, it
>>> didn't work instantly with Dovecot, but I didn't have the time and/or
>>> the impetus to investigate it. Some work on the side of the IMAP server
>>> would be needed, too, of course. All in all, the whole thing shouldn't
>>> be too difficult, at least for Maildir backends. And no, I'm not doing
>>> it – too much to do, too little time, same old, same old.
>>
>> IMAP UIDVALIDITY kills any client side indexing. Client has to rebuild cache
>> every time UIDVALIDITY is invalidated by IMAP server and to rebuild the
>> cache you have to download entire mailbox.
>
> I am not talking about client side indexing, but indeed server side
> indexing. With some work on the IMAP server side (i.e. mairix
> integration) and some on the client side (mairix GUI as SquirrelMail
> plugin) this might be possible to do.

FYI:  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.squirrelmail.devel/10147

--
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SquirrelMail Team
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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Pander
Have you tried:
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBMail_IMAP_and_POP3_server


> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Juergen Nickelsen
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 2013-05-01 20:58, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:
>>
>>>> To be serious, it could be interesting to use mairix[1] to build
>>>> indexes
>>>> and to make a UI as a SquirrelMail plugin. It can search very fast in
>>>> its indexes; results are presented in a separate folder containing
>>>> symlinks to the actual message files. My non-IMAP-using colleagues
>>>> *love* mairix.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps mairix would have to be adapted a bit – when I last tried it,
>>>> it
>>>> didn't work instantly with Dovecot, but I didn't have the time and/or
>>>> the impetus to investigate it. Some work on the side of the IMAP
>>>> server
>>>> would be needed, too, of course. All in all, the whole thing shouldn't
>>>> be too difficult, at least for Maildir backends. And no, I'm not doing
>>>> it – too much to do, too little time, same old, same old.
>>>
>>> IMAP UIDVALIDITY kills any client side indexing. Client has to rebuild
>>> cache
>>> every time UIDVALIDITY is invalidated by IMAP server and to rebuild the
>>> cache you have to download entire mailbox.
>>
>> I am not talking about client side indexing, but indeed server side
>> indexing. With some work on the IMAP server side (i.e. mairix
>> integration) and some on the client side (mairix GUI as SquirrelMail
>> plugin) this might be possible to do.
>
> FYI:  http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.mail.squirrelmail.devel/10147
>
> --
> Paul Lesniewski
> SquirrelMail Team
> Please support Open Source Software by donating to SquirrelMail!
> http://squirrelmail.org/donate_paul_lesniewski.php
>
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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Tomas Kuliavas
Please provide link to DBMail doc showing that they support squat indexing or learn what FTS is and how Squat works. I never thought that storing binary content in database was good idea.

Older dbmail versions had problems with headers and used mime libraries. Newer versions probably fixed it, but they still follow main "email data in database" principle. Squat is index database. SQL service can't act as search engine for email data stored in database. SQL can't translate MIME and mime parts are stored as blobs in dbmail database.

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Pander


Tomas Kuliavas <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Pander wrote
>> Have you tried:
>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBMail_IMAP_and_POP3_server
>
>Please provide link to DBMail doc showing that they support squat
>indexing
>or learn what FTS is and how Squat works. I never thought that storing
>binary content in database was good idea.
>
>Older dbmail versions had problems with headers and used mime
>libraries.
>Newer versions probably fixed it, but they still follow main "email
>data in
>database" principle. Squat is index database. SQL service can't act as
>search engine for email data stored in database. SQL can't translate
>MIME
>and mime parts are stored as blobs in dbmail database.

I personally know the core developer of DBMail so I forwarded this message to him with the request to reply to you.

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Howto upgrade ubuntu squirrelmail

hamees
In reply to this post by Tomas Kuliavas
Hi again,
 
is it a good idea to use the developer version you can checkout from here in a production system?
svn checkout http://squirrelmail.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/squirrelmail/trunk/squirrelmail
Would you say from experience that we can make a cron to regularly "svn up" or will this make the system unusable?
 
Currently we have the neweset Ubuntu's version from apt-get, which is SquirrelMail V1.4.20. Is there no up to date repository for Ubuntu?
 
And last question, do the config files match between 1.4.20 and 1.5.22 or will we have to setup a lot to get the system up and running?
 
 
Cheers,
John

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Re: Searching 30,000 emails

Pander
In reply to this post by Tomas Kuliavas
On 05/17/2013 08:08 PM, Tomas Kuliavas wrote:

> Pander wrote
>> Have you tried:
>>   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DBMail_IMAP_and_POP3_server
>
> Please provide link to DBMail doc showing that they support squat indexing
> or learn what FTS is and how Squat works. I never thought that storing
> binary content in database was good idea.
>
> Older dbmail versions had problems with headers and used mime libraries.
> Newer versions probably fixed it, but they still follow main "email data in
> database" principle. Squat is index database. SQL service can't act as
> search engine for email data stored in database. SQL can't translate MIME
> and mime parts are stored as blobs in dbmail database.
>

Maintainer of DBMail wrote me the following to answer your question. He
has good experiences with SOLR as search engine for email archives. It
has nothing to do with DBMail actually. For making a large number of
mailing lists searchable and to be able to tag certain users, see:
  http://www.ripe.net/mailtagging/

pyramids + jquery on the front-end and solr on the backend. Works very fast.

The problem with FTS in DBMail is that you don't need it: IMAP only
requires searching parts of text/* messages, so application/octet-stream
etc do not have to be searched according to IMAP. But that is not what
users expect. In his opinion IMAP search is hence broken.

I hope this helps, otherwise contact him directly.

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Re: Howto upgrade ubuntu squirrelmail

Paul Lesniewski
In reply to this post by hamees
> is it a good idea to use the developer version you can checkout from here in
> a production system?
> svn checkout
> http://squirrelmail.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/squirrelmail/trunk/squirrelmail
> Would you say from experience that we can make a cron to regularly "svn up"
> or will this make the system unusable?

Some people use 1.5.2 in production, but I can't recommend that you
put any automated updater behind ANY software you run in production,
especially that which is labeled as a development branch.

> Currently we have the neweset Ubuntu's version from apt-get, which is
> SquirrelMail V1.4.20. Is there no up to date repository for Ubuntu?

Ask Ubuntu?

> And last question, do the config files match between 1.4.20 and 1.5.22 or
> will we have to setup a lot to get the system up and running?

Many of the settings carry over, but there are some that are
different/added in 1.5.2, so mixing and matching isn't a good idea.

--
Paul Lesniewski
SquirrelMail Team
Please support Open Source Software by donating to SquirrelMail!
http://squirrelmail.org/donate_paul_lesniewski.php

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